and here you had candidate at the very top of the ticket mitt romney with paul ryan who's budget would decimate the pell grant program, right? and clayborn pell was a democrat, but it was always a program that had bipartisan support. >> what has changed in america, and hopefully will change back what democrats are champion is a way to level the playing field, not to give handouts but to give hands up. so it's to make sure if kids are poor -- they can't ask their parents to pay for their education -- >> bill: that's the mitt romney approach. >> their parents would love to but if you don't have the economic wherewithal you need it from somewhere else. if you cut the education like the paul ryan budget did, how do you have in urban or rural places, where you have poverty how do you make sure kids have enrichment courses, music, art, and what kids in private schools have, so it's enabling opportunity. it is levelling the playing field, enabling people to be able to reach and actually share -- actually reach for pos parity. >> bill: yeah, and that was clearly president obama's agenda. i was